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T O P I C R E V I E WimplosionsSo a running theme in my life is getting caught on loops or going in circles without realising it until a long while later.And looking at my chart aspects, they're all caught up in a never ending loop. Two yods involving all my personal planets (excluding Mercury). And these are mostly the only aspects going on in my chart aside from Moon/IC and Uranus/MC which is sort of like the cable plugging it all into the wall.How does one get out of the merry-go-round? My ChartGraham quote:How does one get out of the merry-go-round?Step 1 must be to identify the natal planets/configuration that make up the merry-go-round ... and my guess is that you have correctly identified it as being the close-orbed bathtub configuration, shown in the image below. This is a security-seeking configuration - which is focused on the Ascendant/self; has it's purpose symbolised by the Sabian axis of Pisces 28/Virgo 28 (in 12th/6th houses) and cannot stop thinking (because of the green qcx aspects). That internal turmoil is rarely apparent to others though (since they most often see the stability of the red/action and blue/relaxtion aspects.)At http://sabiansymbols.com/symbol-lookup/ ...the Sabian Symbol for Pisces 28 is interpreted as :- A FERTILE GARDEN UNDER THE FULL MOONThis shows enjoying nature and the fruits of your life, your country, your culture. There's often a sense that one has all that's needed, and emotions can be running high. The “Fertile Garden” signifies that you have things that you need at your disposal. This Symbol has a strong clairvoyant sense to it, with the ability to pick up on subtle energies and life forms in the environment. You’ll get a lot of opportunities to enjoy the moment, but keep a sense of equilibrium, as soon the energy will be on the wane and you'll have to get back to more practical, everyday tasks. Fullness and fertility. Peak experiences. Brilliantly active subconscious life. Cycles. The effects of the moon. Mother Nature’s gifts. The full moon. Nature sprites. Gardens. The Caution: Jealous protection. Too many possibilities. Psychic confusion. Difficulty sleeping or shutting down the mind. Missed opportunities. Night shadows.And that for Virgo 28 is interpreted as :-A BALDHEADED MAN WHO HAS SEIZED POWERThis Symbol shows a personality that “Seizes Power” and takes hold of situations. The fact that he’s “Bald” implies someone with experience, perhaps older, someone willing and able to take a stand and take charge. This pictures times to seize power and push forward with decisions that need to be grounded. It is by force of will that solutions will be found, but one must be careful to temper situations as displays of masculine will can get out of hand very quickly. This degree sometimes needs to be handled with caution as it can mean having people in one’s life that bully, push and demand. Dominating mental space to be in control. Male hormones run rampant. The story of Samson and his hair. Uniforms. Being cruel. Commanding and strong. The government. The Caution: Pushing too hard or fast. Ramming convictions. Demanding and bossy. Power tripping. Strict rules to live by. Taking over. Not listening nor caring. Corruption.So, do these Sabian Symbol interpretations make any sense to you? ... (And note how the green thinking aspects "terminate" at each end of the red action aspect - thus creating more thinking, rather than physical action/"doing".) implosions quote:Originally posted by Graham: So, do these Sabian Symbol interpretations make any sense to you? ... (And note how the green thinking aspects "terminate" at each end of the red action aspect - thus creating more thinking, rather than physical action/"doing".) I'm guessing the 28 degree is the midpoint of the top/bottom of the 'bathtub'? I hadn't thought to look there! The interpretations do somewhat resonate- internally for Pisces and externally for Virgo, for sure. I hadn't thought to look at the termination points of the quincunxes either, but that is interesting. I do tend to ruminate more in my head than take action. - Actually the bit in the Virgo sabian about 'missed opportunities' often feels like a dark cloud around me, but I have to to figure out how to actually catch an opportunity without having all my alarm bells go off and mislead. It's sometimes confounding, but I do as much work as I can to try and soothe an over-active nervous system!Thank you for this input, I deeply appreciate it!Graham quote:Originally posted by implosions: I'm guessing the 28 degree is the midpoint of the top/bottom of the 'bathtub'? I hadn't thought to look there! The interpretations do somewhat resonate- internally for Pisces and externally for Virgo, for sure. I hadn't thought to look at the termination points of the quincunxes either, but that is interesting. I do tend to ruminate more in my head than take action. - Actually the bit in the Virgo sabian about 'missed opportunities' often feels like a dark cloud around me, but I have to to figure out how to actually catch an opportunity without having all my alarm bells go off and mislead. It's sometimes confounding, but I do as much work as I can to try and soothe an over-active nervous system!Thank you for this input, I deeply appreciate it!Have you noticed the triangular {b]Poleaxe[/b] figure* in your natal chart? It has Moon-Chiron at the base with Neptune at the apex, and seems to be re-inforcing the Mars-Neptune-Jupiter Yod in your bathtub configuration.* see http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/241788.html implosions quote:Originally posted by Graham: Have you noticed the triangular {b]Poleaxe figure* in your natal chart? It has Moon-Chiron at the base with Neptune at the apex, and seems to be re-inforcing the Mars-Neptune-Jupiter Yod in your bathtub configuration. [/B]Oh, I did not! But I have looked at that thread as of now. The 'pleasure in persisting with a thing' here seems unfortunately apt, I think. I still haven't fully grasped how Mars/Jupiter/Neptune yod works (the other I think I have), so this will take some more introspection perhaps.Moon-Chiron to Neptune sounds like it would get really caught up in the 'meaning' of the emotional intensity in things. I do find I am constantly trying to dismantle aggrandised thoughts and emotions. I must have lucked out having my Mercury outside of this mess, because it does seem to see right through these 'loops' usually. It's just unsticking that gets tricky.Perhaps because Mars is retrograde, hm.Graham quote:I still haven't fully grasped how Mars/Jupiter/Neptune yod works (the other I think I have), so this will take some more introspection perhaps.Might the Yod interpretations be connected to the Sabian Symbol interpretations? ... And you may learn something by looking retrospectively at what happened when transit Saturn recently activated your natal Poleaxe (from Capricorn) - + what happens when it dies so again, later in 2020. implosions quote:Originally posted by Graham: Might the Yod interpretations be connected to the Sabian Symbol interpretations? ... And you may learn something by looking retrospectively at what happened when transit Saturn recently activated your natal Poleaxe (from Capricorn) - + what happens when it dies so again, later in 2020. Hm, so for Poleaxe to be activated, it's when it hits the missing leg? Or when it transits one of the points? I'm not sure what degree it would be when it hits the missing leg, -- (*Editing this last bit out because I got the dates wrong)Graham quote:Originally posted by implosions: Hm, so for Poleaxe to be activated, it's when it hits the missing leg? Or when it transits one of the points? I'm not sure what degree it would be when it hits the missing leg, -- (*Editing this last bit out because I got the dates wrong)You have a natal poleaxe. ... So, activated by progressions or/and transits to one of the three points.If you had only the semi-sextile or one of the 165/quindeciles in your natal chart ... a temporary poleaxe would be created by progressions or/and transits making a conjunction with the missing leg.So, transit Saturn recently activated/aspected each of the three planets in your natal poleaxe. [I use a 1 degree orb for both progressions and transits - but you will know from experience whether to increase or reduce that.) implosions quote:Originally posted by Graham: You have a natal poleaxe. ... So, activated by progressions or/and transits to one of the three points.So, transit Saturn recently activated/aspected each of the three planets in your natal poleaxe.Hm. If I think back, when Saturn opposed my Moon, it was around the time when I shaved all my hair off (big tumultuous time then, I am very sensitive to transits so I would wager the orb started quite wide when it was felt).Saturn crossing from opposite Moon into conjuncting Neptune had a multitude of happenings as well (which, my MC and Uranus were involved), including news of my parent passing, and then shortly passing -- and then into the Neptune conjunction I believe I ended up ejecting from a few close friendships out of fear of loss.More recently, hm. Opposing my Chiron, I suppose I found a volunteer opportunity that I almost didn't take due to fear, but ended up really enjoying it. (However since that transit, it has been postponed until the end of this year due to current events- but Saturn is also edging up on my North Node too.)I definitely know there were extremes with communication issues when Pluto crossed those lines as well- actually, if the issue of the poleaxe sometimes making communication difficult (too forceful/wrongly timed?) then the ejection of friendships due to intense emotions is probably right up that alley.I think these sound like accurate events in regards to the transits, hm.Graham quote:Originally posted by implosions: Hm. If I think back, when Saturn opposed my Moon, it was around the time when I shaved all my hair off (big tumultuous time then, I am very sensitive to transits so I would wager the orb started quite wide when it was felt).Saturn crossing from opposite Moon into conjuncting Neptune had a multitude of happenings as well (which, my MC and Uranus were involved), including news of my parent passing, and then shortly passing -- and then into the Neptune conjunction I believe I ended up ejecting from a few close friendships out of fear of loss.More recently, hm. Opposing my Chiron, I suppose I found a volunteer opportunity that I almost didn't take due to fear, but ended up really enjoying it. (However since that transit, it has been postponed until the end of this year due to current events- but Saturn is also edging up on my North Node too.)I definitely know there were extremes with communication issues when Pluto crossed those lines as well- actually, if the issue of the poleaxe sometimes making communication difficult (too forceful/wrongly timed?) then the ejection of friendships due to intense emotions is probably right up that alley.I think these sound like accurate events in regards to the transits, hm.The natal poleaxe involves Moon, Chiron-in-Cancer, Neptune and 10th house. ... So, during childhood and adolescence, how did you perceive your mother?implosions quote:Originally posted by Graham: The natal poleaxe involves Moon, Chiron-in-Cancer, Neptune and 10th house. ... So, during childhood and adolescence, how did you perceive your mother?That is a big question Her natal moon/lilith is conjunct my Moon,and her MC is conjunct my Chiron. (I could say her Saturn is loosely conjunct my Neptune as well). Love my mom! But she's always been a sort of distant figure, always off working and we've always had a hard time emotionally connecting. We were often 'too extreme' for the other to know how to deal with. Lots of miscommunication, but without the knowledge of how to actually do so without being triggered all over the place.Kannon McAfeeimplosions,I think the answer is on the level of consciousness, not necessarily anything in astrological terms. Become a procrastinative: migrate to procrastinateland and become naturalized there: give yourself permission to delay the next step in the loop you'd normally take. And tell yourself it is better.What you're describing about continuing behaviors that have you going in circles or getting nowhere, but not realizing it until a while later relates to square aspect dynamics more than quincunxes or yods.Look at your Sun-Venus-Pluto in Scorpio square Jupiter in Leo. I bet it relates to obsession and over-confidence more than the dynamics of the quincunxes/yod. Look at the core of the dynamic (which is actually mostly the same in either aspect configuration): Sun conjunct Venus and Pluto. Sift out how fixed ideas or feeling/mood states are playing into the patterns of energy and decisions in your life.Quincunx aspect dynamics have built-in changes or adjustments that modify external manifestation. The squares don't. They are relentless and ego will take them too far until you have insight to stop them or you get stopped from the outside. ------------------Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations GuyExpert birth chart rectificationThe birth chart is a starting place not a pre-determiner of fate. implosions quote:Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:implosions, Become a procrastinative: migrate to procrastinateland and become naturalized there: give yourself permission to delay the next step in the loop you'd normally take.Look at your Sun-Venus-Pluto in Scorpio square Jupiter in Leo. I bet it relates to obsession and over-confidence more than the dynamics of the quincunxes/yod. Look at the core of the dynamic (which is actually mostly the same in either aspect configuration): Sun conjunct Venus and Pluto. Sift out how fixed ideas or feeling/mood states are playing into the patterns of energy and decisions in your life.Procrastinationland is ... probably the best advice I've heard! And ironically, I've been exploring 'holding off' on things in the past week or so. It is definitely frustrating as I have some issues with impatience due to boredom, but it does seem to be more helpful. Long term results have often worked out well in the past as well.The next part however; I find I have more of an issue with lack of self confidence! I have fairly steady self esteem (or perhaps that I worry less about it than people around me), but hoo boy I have terrible self confidence in doing most things! I always felt a bit let down since Jupiter in Leo is supposedly the best booster for that kind of thing (and perhaps I had more when I was very little) but in regular life, oh boy oh jeez. Very little. I tend to shy away from most opportunities to self express because it's incredibly overwhelming.Do you think what you described could be subversive or uh, the flip side of it?Fixed Moods as well is tricky. I always thought my Moon was more involved with my fickle emotions- and boy do they change a lot. Actually in all irony, I don't know how to relate much to all the Scorpio aside from the love of deep-diving into information and occult knowledge (mostly astrology- a lot of other occult stuff kinda spooks me unless it's grounded.)GrahamAlso note that sun-moon-Jupiter are in a 8th harmonic triangular relationship ... And the 8th harmonic = persisting with a thing beyond the point that others consider to be reasonable.Think of Venus and Pluto as modifying the Sun in this 8H triangle, rather than as planets squaring Jupiter.implosionsI definitely have a hard time understanding the Pluto, Venus and Sun conjunction, honestly. I know I can be quite intense about things, but I don't think I've know another person with similar aspects so I haven't seen similar mirrors.And any 'mirror' relationships have all been about my Moon rather than my 8th. If anything I tend to get heck about 'always looking angry' when I am fully in my neutral zone. Although I suppose in context of 8th house being the 'things we bring into a relationship' I surely have a lot of baggage there. Maybe why I tend to avoid relationships lolGraham quote:Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:implosions,I think the answer is on the level of consciousness, not necessarily anything in astrological terms. Become a procrastinative: migrate to procrastinateland and become naturalized there: give yourself permission to delay the next step in the loop you'd normally take. And tell yourself it is better.What you're describing about continuing behaviors that have you going in circles or getting nowhere, but not realizing it until a while later relates to [b]square aspect dynamics more than quincunxes or yods.Look at your Sun-Venus-Pluto in Scorpio square Jupiter in Leo. I bet it relates to obsession and over-confidence more than the dynamics of the quincunxes/yod. Look at the core of the dynamic (which is actually mostly the same in either aspect configuration): Sun conjunct Venus and Pluto. Sift out how fixed ideas or feeling/mood states are playing into the patterns of energy and decisions in your life.Quincunx aspect dynamics have built-in changes or adjustments that modify external manifestation. The squares don't. They are relentless and ego will take them too far until you have insight to stop them or you get stopped from the outside. [/B]At the exact time of posting this comment, Kannon ... were any transits of planets (or their mid-points) creating a temporary poleaxe configuration with your natal Jupiter-Neptune semi-sextile? ... [Using a one degree orb, the activation degrees are 14Taurus17 to 16Taurus17 ... I think transit Venus/Uranus midpoint may have been around there at the time of posting, and triggered by a conjunction of transit Moon to transit Uranus.]Graham quote:Originally posted by implosions:I definitely have a hard time understanding the Pluto, Venus and Sun conjunction, honestly. I know I can be quite intense about things, but I don't think I've know another person with similar aspects so I haven't seen similar mirrors.And any 'mirror' relationships have all been about my Moon rather than my 8th. If anything I tend to get heck about 'always looking angry' when I am fully in my neutral zone. Although I suppose in context of 8th house being the 'things we bring into a relationship' I surely have a lot of baggage there. Maybe why I tend to avoid relationships lol1) Has it escaped your notice that you and I were procrastinating our way towards an answer to your opening post question when (natal-Moon-at-12Capricorn08) Kannon stepped in to deliver (to your Neptune-at-12Capricorn18) his between-the-eyes message/solution ... which is "become comfortable with procrastinating"?2) Think of Pluto as intensity, Venus as personal values and Sun as self-expression ... blending together as (say) a Sun that expresses personal values intensely.3) How might your childhood/adolescent perception of your mother have contributed to the creation of a Sun that expresses personal values intensely?[Note : Are you reading my 8H reference as 8th house rather than 8th harmonic?]implosions quote:Originally posted by Graham: 1) Has it escaped your notice that you and I were procrastinating our way towards an answer to your opening post question when (natal-Moon-at-12Capricorn08) Kannon stepped in to deliver (to your Neptune-at-12Capricorn18) his between-the-eyes message/solution ... which is "become comfortable with procrastinating"?2) Think of Pluto as intensity, Venus as personal values and Sun as self-expression ... blending together as (say) a Sun that expresses personal values intensely.3) How might your childhood/adolescent perception of your mother have contributed to the creation of a Sun that expresses personal values intensely?[Note : Are you reading my 8H reference as 8th house rather than 8th harmonic?]1. It did escape me, but that is fascinating! It was definitely between the eyes, haha.2. I see, hm. In that sense, I do have very high standards or uh, values. I've been around a lot of people who have no care or awareness (or care FOR self awareness) in their lives and in my family, so I've sort of set myself in a sort of fortress where only the best of the best can probably get close. It's not always intentional, but I always get such a bad experience when I let those standards slip. It's kind of like, 'live up to it and match me or please be on your way' kind of thing. At least for close-relationships. Hm hm hmmmm.3. I definitely got all those values from my parents. They may not have always expressed it well, but especially with my mother, it always seemed like she assumed the best in people, but would often end up bitter about it. My father was the steadfast one in that he was usually friends with some pretty messed up people, but he always 'saw the good in them' and probably stayed past the expiration date pretty often.(Oh. I probably was, yes. Were you referring to the Harmonic instead? I haven't studied those so I wouldn't have assumed that. Apologies if that was the case!)Graham quote:It was definitely between the eyes"The poleaxe refers to an animal-culling device of similar appearance. It was swung so the spike struck the animal, normally cattle, in the forehead. Hence also the phrase 'to be poleaxed' referring to being stunned." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PollaxePerhaps the planets used Kannon's temporary poleaxe to show you how to wield your own natal poleaxe effectively, by "cutting to the Neptune-in-Capricorn/10th chase". ... But, how does one then reconcile that with the "become comfortable with procrastination" message of the other Yod's Mars-in-Gemini/3rd apex? .... Could it be that the Mars-Neptune qcx (shared by both Yod's) is impelling you to learn "when it is time to think, and when it is time to act"? ... And that, when that has become a skill, the "newborn baby" is programmed to leave the security of it's bathtub - thus stepping into the (empty) 11th/12th/1st/2nd eastern hemisphere houses of the natal chart? implosions quote:Originally posted by Graham: "Hence also the phrase 'to be poleaxed' referring to being stunned."Perhaps the planets used Kannon's temporary poleaxe to show you how to wield your own natal poleaxe effectively, by "cutting to the Neptune-in-Capricorn/10th chase". ... But, how does one then reconcile that with the "become comfortable with procrastination" message of the other Yod's Mars-in-Gemini/3rd apex? .... Could it be that the Mars-Neptune qcx (shared by both Yod's) is impelling you to learn "when it is time to think, and when it is time to act"? ... And that, when that has become a skill, the "newborn baby" is programmed to leave the security of it's bathtub - thus stepping into the (empty) 11th/12th/1st/2nd eastern hemisphere houses of the natal chart? I just have to say, I love this thread! So much amazing information I feel like I've been missing for so long. Thank you Graham (And Kannon)!I do somewhat feel as if I've been stunned by the hit of info. It kind of clicked something into place. And yes, Gem Mars isn't known for being excessively patient (although the Rx does give me lots of ability to procrastinate, so a surprise gift there). Love the analogy of the baby learning to leave the bathtub and explore the other side. Saturn having moved into Aquarius to start lighting up my North Node feels VERY in tune with that. And with all the transits moving out of Capricorn as well, I'm going to have not much other choice but to get to know the outside area of familiarity.Thank you so much again, Graham and Kannon! Your insight has been absolutely helpful! RandallBump!
And looking at my chart aspects, they're all caught up in a never ending loop. Two yods involving all my personal planets (excluding Mercury).
And these are mostly the only aspects going on in my chart aside from Moon/IC and Uranus/MC which is sort of like the cable plugging it all into the wall.
How does one get out of the merry-go-round?
My Chart
quote:How does one get out of the merry-go-round?
This is a security-seeking configuration - which is focused on the Ascendant/self; has it's purpose symbolised by the Sabian axis of Pisces 28/Virgo 28 (in 12th/6th houses) and cannot stop thinking (because of the green qcx aspects). That internal turmoil is rarely apparent to others though (since they most often see the stability of the red/action and blue/relaxtion aspects.)
At http://sabiansymbols.com/symbol-lookup/ ...the Sabian Symbol for Pisces 28 is interpreted as :-
A FERTILE GARDEN UNDER THE FULL MOON
This shows enjoying nature and the fruits of your life, your country, your culture. There's often a sense that one has all that's needed, and emotions can be running high. The “Fertile Garden” signifies that you have things that you need at your disposal. This Symbol has a strong clairvoyant sense to it, with the ability to pick up on subtle energies and life forms in the environment. You’ll get a lot of opportunities to enjoy the moment, but keep a sense of equilibrium, as soon the energy will be on the wane and you'll have to get back to more practical, everyday tasks. Fullness and fertility. Peak experiences. Brilliantly active subconscious life. Cycles. The effects of the moon. Mother Nature’s gifts. The full moon. Nature sprites. Gardens.
The Caution: Jealous protection. Too many possibilities. Psychic confusion. Difficulty sleeping or shutting down the mind. Missed opportunities. Night shadows.
And that for Virgo 28 is interpreted as :-
A BALDHEADED MAN WHO HAS SEIZED POWER
This Symbol shows a personality that “Seizes Power” and takes hold of situations. The fact that he’s “Bald” implies someone with experience, perhaps older, someone willing and able to take a stand and take charge. This pictures times to seize power and push forward with decisions that need to be grounded. It is by force of will that solutions will be found, but one must be careful to temper situations as displays of masculine will can get out of hand very quickly. This degree sometimes needs to be handled with caution as it can mean having people in one’s life that bully, push and demand. Dominating mental space to be in control. Male hormones run rampant. The story of Samson and his hair. Uniforms. Being cruel. Commanding and strong. The government.
The Caution: Pushing too hard or fast. Ramming convictions. Demanding and bossy. Power tripping. Strict rules to live by. Taking over. Not listening nor caring. Corruption.
So, do these Sabian Symbol interpretations make any sense to you? ... (And note how the green thinking aspects "terminate" at each end of the red action aspect - thus creating more thinking, rather than physical action/"doing".)
quote:Originally posted by Graham: So, do these Sabian Symbol interpretations make any sense to you? ... (And note how the green thinking aspects "terminate" at each end of the red action aspect - thus creating more thinking, rather than physical action/"doing".)
I'm guessing the 28 degree is the midpoint of the top/bottom of the 'bathtub'? I hadn't thought to look there! The interpretations do somewhat resonate- internally for Pisces and externally for Virgo, for sure. I hadn't thought to look at the termination points of the quincunxes either, but that is interesting. I do tend to ruminate more in my head than take action. - Actually the bit in the Virgo sabian about 'missed opportunities' often feels like a dark cloud around me, but I have to to figure out how to actually catch an opportunity without having all my alarm bells go off and mislead. It's sometimes confounding, but I do as much work as I can to try and soothe an over-active nervous system!
Thank you for this input, I deeply appreciate it!
quote:Originally posted by implosions: I'm guessing the 28 degree is the midpoint of the top/bottom of the 'bathtub'? I hadn't thought to look there! The interpretations do somewhat resonate- internally for Pisces and externally for Virgo, for sure. I hadn't thought to look at the termination points of the quincunxes either, but that is interesting. I do tend to ruminate more in my head than take action. - Actually the bit in the Virgo sabian about 'missed opportunities' often feels like a dark cloud around me, but I have to to figure out how to actually catch an opportunity without having all my alarm bells go off and mislead. It's sometimes confounding, but I do as much work as I can to try and soothe an over-active nervous system!Thank you for this input, I deeply appreciate it!
Have you noticed the triangular {b]Poleaxe[/b] figure* in your natal chart? It has Moon-Chiron at the base with Neptune at the apex, and seems to be re-inforcing the Mars-Neptune-Jupiter Yod in your bathtub configuration.
* see http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/241788.html
quote:Originally posted by Graham: Have you noticed the triangular {b]Poleaxe figure* in your natal chart? It has Moon-Chiron at the base with Neptune at the apex, and seems to be re-inforcing the Mars-Neptune-Jupiter Yod in your bathtub configuration. [/B]
Oh, I did not! But I have looked at that thread as of now. The 'pleasure in persisting with a thing' here seems unfortunately apt, I think. I still haven't fully grasped how Mars/Jupiter/Neptune yod works (the other I think I have), so this will take some more introspection perhaps.
Moon-Chiron to Neptune sounds like it would get really caught up in the 'meaning' of the emotional intensity in things. I do find I am constantly trying to dismantle aggrandised thoughts and emotions. I must have lucked out having my Mercury outside of this mess, because it does seem to see right through these 'loops' usually. It's just unsticking that gets tricky.
Perhaps because Mars is retrograde, hm.
quote:I still haven't fully grasped how Mars/Jupiter/Neptune yod works (the other I think I have), so this will take some more introspection perhaps.
Might the Yod interpretations be connected to the Sabian Symbol interpretations? ... And you may learn something by looking retrospectively at what happened when transit Saturn recently activated your natal Poleaxe (from Capricorn) - + what happens when it dies so again, later in 2020.
quote:Originally posted by Graham: Might the Yod interpretations be connected to the Sabian Symbol interpretations? ... And you may learn something by looking retrospectively at what happened when transit Saturn recently activated your natal Poleaxe (from Capricorn) - + what happens when it dies so again, later in 2020.
Hm, so for Poleaxe to be activated, it's when it hits the missing leg? Or when it transits one of the points? I'm not sure what degree it would be when it hits the missing leg, -- (*Editing this last bit out because I got the dates wrong)
quote:Originally posted by implosions: Hm, so for Poleaxe to be activated, it's when it hits the missing leg? Or when it transits one of the points? I'm not sure what degree it would be when it hits the missing leg, -- (*Editing this last bit out because I got the dates wrong)
You have a natal poleaxe. ... So, activated by progressions or/and transits to one of the three points.
If you had only the semi-sextile or one of the 165/quindeciles in your natal chart ... a temporary poleaxe would be created by progressions or/and transits making a conjunction with the missing leg.
So, transit Saturn recently activated/aspected each of the three planets in your natal poleaxe. [I use a 1 degree orb for both progressions and transits - but you will know from experience whether to increase or reduce that.)
quote:Originally posted by Graham: You have a natal poleaxe. ... So, activated by progressions or/and transits to one of the three points.So, transit Saturn recently activated/aspected each of the three planets in your natal poleaxe.
So, transit Saturn recently activated/aspected each of the three planets in your natal poleaxe.
Hm. If I think back, when Saturn opposed my Moon, it was around the time when I shaved all my hair off (big tumultuous time then, I am very sensitive to transits so I would wager the orb started quite wide when it was felt).
Saturn crossing from opposite Moon into conjuncting Neptune had a multitude of happenings as well (which, my MC and Uranus were involved), including news of my parent passing, and then shortly passing -- and then into the Neptune conjunction I believe I ended up ejecting from a few close friendships out of fear of loss.
More recently, hm. Opposing my Chiron, I suppose I found a volunteer opportunity that I almost didn't take due to fear, but ended up really enjoying it. (However since that transit, it has been postponed until the end of this year due to current events- but Saturn is also edging up on my North Node too.)
I definitely know there were extremes with communication issues when Pluto crossed those lines as well- actually, if the issue of the poleaxe sometimes making communication difficult (too forceful/wrongly timed?) then the ejection of friendships due to intense emotions is probably right up that alley.
I think these sound like accurate events in regards to the transits, hm.
quote:Originally posted by implosions: Hm. If I think back, when Saturn opposed my Moon, it was around the time when I shaved all my hair off (big tumultuous time then, I am very sensitive to transits so I would wager the orb started quite wide when it was felt).Saturn crossing from opposite Moon into conjuncting Neptune had a multitude of happenings as well (which, my MC and Uranus were involved), including news of my parent passing, and then shortly passing -- and then into the Neptune conjunction I believe I ended up ejecting from a few close friendships out of fear of loss.More recently, hm. Opposing my Chiron, I suppose I found a volunteer opportunity that I almost didn't take due to fear, but ended up really enjoying it. (However since that transit, it has been postponed until the end of this year due to current events- but Saturn is also edging up on my North Node too.)I definitely know there were extremes with communication issues when Pluto crossed those lines as well- actually, if the issue of the poleaxe sometimes making communication difficult (too forceful/wrongly timed?) then the ejection of friendships due to intense emotions is probably right up that alley.I think these sound like accurate events in regards to the transits, hm.
The natal poleaxe involves Moon, Chiron-in-Cancer, Neptune and 10th house. ... So, during childhood and adolescence, how did you perceive your mother?
quote:Originally posted by Graham: The natal poleaxe involves Moon, Chiron-in-Cancer, Neptune and 10th house. ... So, during childhood and adolescence, how did you perceive your mother?
That is a big question
Her natal moon/lilith is conjunct my Moon,and her MC is conjunct my Chiron. (I could say her Saturn is loosely conjunct my Neptune as well). Love my mom! But she's always been a sort of distant figure, always off working and we've always had a hard time emotionally connecting. We were often 'too extreme' for the other to know how to deal with. Lots of miscommunication, but without the knowledge of how to actually do so without being triggered all over the place.
I think the answer is on the level of consciousness, not necessarily anything in astrological terms. Become a procrastinative: migrate to procrastinateland and become naturalized there: give yourself permission to delay the next step in the loop you'd normally take. And tell yourself it is better.
What you're describing about continuing behaviors that have you going in circles or getting nowhere, but not realizing it until a while later relates to square aspect dynamics more than quincunxes or yods.
Look at your Sun-Venus-Pluto in Scorpio square Jupiter in Leo. I bet it relates to obsession and over-confidence more than the dynamics of the quincunxes/yod. Look at the core of the dynamic (which is actually mostly the same in either aspect configuration): Sun conjunct Venus and Pluto. Sift out how fixed ideas or feeling/mood states are playing into the patterns of energy and decisions in your life.
Quincunx aspect dynamics have built-in changes or adjustments that modify external manifestation. The squares don't. They are relentless and ego will take them too far until you have insight to stop them or you get stopped from the outside.
------------------Soul Stars Astrology by The Declinations GuyExpert birth chart rectification
The birth chart is a starting place not a pre-determiner of fate.
quote:Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:implosions, Become a procrastinative: migrate to procrastinateland and become naturalized there: give yourself permission to delay the next step in the loop you'd normally take.Look at your Sun-Venus-Pluto in Scorpio square Jupiter in Leo. I bet it relates to obsession and over-confidence more than the dynamics of the quincunxes/yod. Look at the core of the dynamic (which is actually mostly the same in either aspect configuration): Sun conjunct Venus and Pluto. Sift out how fixed ideas or feeling/mood states are playing into the patterns of energy and decisions in your life.
Procrastinationland is ... probably the best advice I've heard! And ironically, I've been exploring 'holding off' on things in the past week or so. It is definitely frustrating as I have some issues with impatience due to boredom, but it does seem to be more helpful. Long term results have often worked out well in the past as well.
The next part however; I find I have more of an issue with lack of self confidence! I have fairly steady self esteem (or perhaps that I worry less about it than people around me), but hoo boy I have terrible self confidence in doing most things! I always felt a bit let down since Jupiter in Leo is supposedly the best booster for that kind of thing (and perhaps I had more when I was very little) but in regular life, oh boy oh jeez. Very little. I tend to shy away from most opportunities to self express because it's incredibly overwhelming.
Do you think what you described could be subversive or uh, the flip side of it?
Fixed Moods as well is tricky. I always thought my Moon was more involved with my fickle emotions- and boy do they change a lot. Actually in all irony, I don't know how to relate much to all the Scorpio aside from the love of deep-diving into information and occult knowledge (mostly astrology- a lot of other occult stuff kinda spooks me unless it's grounded.)
Think of Venus and Pluto as modifying the Sun in this 8H triangle, rather than as planets squaring Jupiter.
And any 'mirror' relationships have all been about my Moon rather than my 8th. If anything I tend to get heck about 'always looking angry' when I am fully in my neutral zone.
Although I suppose in context of 8th house being the 'things we bring into a relationship' I surely have a lot of baggage there. Maybe why I tend to avoid relationships lol
quote:Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:implosions,I think the answer is on the level of consciousness, not necessarily anything in astrological terms. Become a procrastinative: migrate to procrastinateland and become naturalized there: give yourself permission to delay the next step in the loop you'd normally take. And tell yourself it is better.What you're describing about continuing behaviors that have you going in circles or getting nowhere, but not realizing it until a while later relates to [b]square aspect dynamics more than quincunxes or yods.Look at your Sun-Venus-Pluto in Scorpio square Jupiter in Leo. I bet it relates to obsession and over-confidence more than the dynamics of the quincunxes/yod. Look at the core of the dynamic (which is actually mostly the same in either aspect configuration): Sun conjunct Venus and Pluto. Sift out how fixed ideas or feeling/mood states are playing into the patterns of energy and decisions in your life.Quincunx aspect dynamics have built-in changes or adjustments that modify external manifestation. The squares don't. They are relentless and ego will take them too far until you have insight to stop them or you get stopped from the outside. [/B]
What you're describing about continuing behaviors that have you going in circles or getting nowhere, but not realizing it until a while later relates to [b]square aspect dynamics more than quincunxes or yods.
[/B]
At the exact time of posting this comment, Kannon ... were any transits of planets (or their mid-points) creating a temporary poleaxe configuration with your natal Jupiter-Neptune semi-sextile? ... [Using a one degree orb, the activation degrees are 14Taurus17 to 16Taurus17 ... I think transit Venus/Uranus midpoint may have been around there at the time of posting, and triggered by a conjunction of transit Moon to transit Uranus.]
quote:Originally posted by implosions:I definitely have a hard time understanding the Pluto, Venus and Sun conjunction, honestly. I know I can be quite intense about things, but I don't think I've know another person with similar aspects so I haven't seen similar mirrors.And any 'mirror' relationships have all been about my Moon rather than my 8th. If anything I tend to get heck about 'always looking angry' when I am fully in my neutral zone. Although I suppose in context of 8th house being the 'things we bring into a relationship' I surely have a lot of baggage there. Maybe why I tend to avoid relationships lol
1) Has it escaped your notice that you and I were procrastinating our way towards an answer to your opening post question when (natal-Moon-at-12Capricorn08) Kannon stepped in to deliver (to your Neptune-at-12Capricorn18) his between-the-eyes message/solution ... which is "become comfortable with procrastinating"?
2) Think of Pluto as intensity, Venus as personal values and Sun as self-expression ... blending together as (say) a Sun that expresses personal values intensely.
3) How might your childhood/adolescent perception of your mother have contributed to the creation of a Sun that expresses personal values intensely?
[Note : Are you reading my 8H reference as 8th house rather than 8th harmonic?]
quote:Originally posted by Graham: 1) Has it escaped your notice that you and I were procrastinating our way towards an answer to your opening post question when (natal-Moon-at-12Capricorn08) Kannon stepped in to deliver (to your Neptune-at-12Capricorn18) his between-the-eyes message/solution ... which is "become comfortable with procrastinating"?2) Think of Pluto as intensity, Venus as personal values and Sun as self-expression ... blending together as (say) a Sun that expresses personal values intensely.3) How might your childhood/adolescent perception of your mother have contributed to the creation of a Sun that expresses personal values intensely?[Note : Are you reading my 8H reference as 8th house rather than 8th harmonic?]
1. It did escape me, but that is fascinating! It was definitely between the eyes, haha.
2. I see, hm. In that sense, I do have very high standards or uh, values. I've been around a lot of people who have no care or awareness (or care FOR self awareness) in their lives and in my family, so I've sort of set myself in a sort of fortress where only the best of the best can probably get close. It's not always intentional, but I always get such a bad experience when I let those standards slip. It's kind of like, 'live up to it and match me or please be on your way' kind of thing. At least for close-relationships. Hm hm hmmmm.
3. I definitely got all those values from my parents. They may not have always expressed it well, but especially with my mother, it always seemed like she assumed the best in people, but would often end up bitter about it. My father was the steadfast one in that he was usually friends with some pretty messed up people, but he always 'saw the good in them' and probably stayed past the expiration date pretty often.
(Oh. I probably was, yes. Were you referring to the Harmonic instead? I haven't studied those so I wouldn't have assumed that. Apologies if that was the case!)
quote:It was definitely between the eyes
"The poleaxe refers to an animal-culling device of similar appearance. It was swung so the spike struck the animal, normally cattle, in the forehead. Hence also the phrase 'to be poleaxed' referring to being stunned." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollaxe
Perhaps the planets used Kannon's temporary poleaxe to show you how to wield your own natal poleaxe effectively, by "cutting to the Neptune-in-Capricorn/10th chase". ... But, how does one then reconcile that with the "become comfortable with procrastination" message of the other Yod's Mars-in-Gemini/3rd apex? .... Could it be that the Mars-Neptune qcx (shared by both Yod's) is impelling you to learn "when it is time to think, and when it is time to act"? ... And that, when that has become a skill, the "newborn baby" is programmed to leave the security of it's bathtub - thus stepping into the (empty) 11th/12th/1st/2nd eastern hemisphere houses of the natal chart?
quote:Originally posted by Graham: "Hence also the phrase 'to be poleaxed' referring to being stunned."Perhaps the planets used Kannon's temporary poleaxe to show you how to wield your own natal poleaxe effectively, by "cutting to the Neptune-in-Capricorn/10th chase". ... But, how does one then reconcile that with the "become comfortable with procrastination" message of the other Yod's Mars-in-Gemini/3rd apex? .... Could it be that the Mars-Neptune qcx (shared by both Yod's) is impelling you to learn "when it is time to think, and when it is time to act"? ... And that, when that has become a skill, the "newborn baby" is programmed to leave the security of it's bathtub - thus stepping into the (empty) 11th/12th/1st/2nd eastern hemisphere houses of the natal chart?
I just have to say, I love this thread! So much amazing information I feel like I've been missing for so long. Thank you Graham (And Kannon)!
I do somewhat feel as if I've been stunned by the hit of info. It kind of clicked something into place. And yes, Gem Mars isn't known for being excessively patient (although the Rx does give me lots of ability to procrastinate, so a surprise gift there). Love the analogy of the baby learning to leave the bathtub and explore the other side. Saturn having moved into Aquarius to start lighting up my North Node feels VERY in tune with that. And with all the transits moving out of Capricorn as well, I'm going to have not much other choice but to get to know the outside area of familiarity.
Thank you so much again, Graham and Kannon! Your insight has been absolutely helpful!
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